I have no idea if you plan to cover this, but I would be very interested to learn about if and how the different views of conversion are connected to different views of soteriology. It would seem to be the case that a five-point Calvinist and any variety of Arminian would have a very different conception of what is actually happening during conversion, but is that true?
This is a good begining. I couldn't really tell you when I was "converted." As far back as I can remember I believed in God and everything they told me in Sunday school, which was doctrinely sound. Once the gospel was clearly, coherently presented, I believed it in the same way I already believed what I knew. No struggle with the old man, no drama, even though it seemed like there was supposed to be. So when was I converted? After praying the prayer? As soon as I recognized there was God and started on the path that led to the prayer? Anyway, looking forward to the next essay.
Here's another reason why people don't know about conversion: Because the conversion message (salvation from sin) and the conversion process (accept a set of propositions, pray a prayer) turn out to be far more complex than many evangelicals used to think. Salvation is so much more than fixing a negative condition. It is ultimately about God's desire to live with His people, to embrace people and enfold them into his divine life. We can share the divine life! Of course, our sin needs to be dealt with, but think about all the biblical metaphors for salvation: forgiveness, reconciliation, adoption, deliverance, victory of bondage and over the powers, justification, setting all things right, joy and peace, communion with God and one another, restoring creation, and more. So yes, you've shared with your son a small piece of this, that's great. But in reality you have only begun to communicate the barest essentials about what God desires for us. I wouldn't worry about a 'decision' or a 'prayer', much less about baptism. Keep nurturing your son's (and your own) imagination about what God's future world looks like. Grow in the love of God, and in enthousiasm for seeing people done justice in Jesus' name. In that, you participate with God in His work in this world, and His work in your son. Praying all the while for God to touch all of our hearts with his love and grace.
Hi Jack, thanks so much for your comment! I totally agree that conversion is complex, and I want to be able to walk with my son through all of this. I recently read in a book by David F. Wells that part of the conversion process with child (especially) is inviting them to a whole series of responses, like you mentioned. Yet one of these responses a trusting in Christ; that is the moment before they were unsaved, the moment after they are saved. Revival methods are my default, but what would you say is a legitimate entry point into the faith? Is it even okay to pray the sinner's prayer?
I've seen enough conversions where there was a clear before/after. Usually, these were adults. But I've also seen enough that were very gradual, where from a human perspective it isn't easy to indicate the 'entry point'. That's especially the case with children, who generally follow their parents' example. At what point can you say that something was really their own decision? What about decisions in very early childhood? We take a child's decision seriously, but also realize that children are (rightly or wrongly) very strongly influenced by their social and faith context. I have become less worried about trying to get somebody across the threshhold, and more focused on God's continuing work in my life and witness as well as in the lives of others, including those who are not yet converted. This shouldn't be an excuse not to talk about the gospel, or not to give a clear invitation when the time appears to be right. But it moves the burden of conversion from my shoulders to God's - where it should be. And, to be honest, whether or not the sinner's prayer is prayed, hasn't always been a very helpful indication of real change in someone's life. Our salvation, of course, does not depend on whether specific words were spoken in prayer, but on whether we truly trust Christ. Prayer is just one indication of such developing trust.
I have no idea if you plan to cover this, but I would be very interested to learn about if and how the different views of conversion are connected to different views of soteriology. It would seem to be the case that a five-point Calvinist and any variety of Arminian would have a very different conception of what is actually happening during conversion, but is that true?
This is a good begining. I couldn't really tell you when I was "converted." As far back as I can remember I believed in God and everything they told me in Sunday school, which was doctrinely sound. Once the gospel was clearly, coherently presented, I believed it in the same way I already believed what I knew. No struggle with the old man, no drama, even though it seemed like there was supposed to be. So when was I converted? After praying the prayer? As soon as I recognized there was God and started on the path that led to the prayer? Anyway, looking forward to the next essay.
Hi Aaron,
Here's another reason why people don't know about conversion: Because the conversion message (salvation from sin) and the conversion process (accept a set of propositions, pray a prayer) turn out to be far more complex than many evangelicals used to think. Salvation is so much more than fixing a negative condition. It is ultimately about God's desire to live with His people, to embrace people and enfold them into his divine life. We can share the divine life! Of course, our sin needs to be dealt with, but think about all the biblical metaphors for salvation: forgiveness, reconciliation, adoption, deliverance, victory of bondage and over the powers, justification, setting all things right, joy and peace, communion with God and one another, restoring creation, and more. So yes, you've shared with your son a small piece of this, that's great. But in reality you have only begun to communicate the barest essentials about what God desires for us. I wouldn't worry about a 'decision' or a 'prayer', much less about baptism. Keep nurturing your son's (and your own) imagination about what God's future world looks like. Grow in the love of God, and in enthousiasm for seeing people done justice in Jesus' name. In that, you participate with God in His work in this world, and His work in your son. Praying all the while for God to touch all of our hearts with his love and grace.
Blessings, Jack
Hi Jack, thanks so much for your comment! I totally agree that conversion is complex, and I want to be able to walk with my son through all of this. I recently read in a book by David F. Wells that part of the conversion process with child (especially) is inviting them to a whole series of responses, like you mentioned. Yet one of these responses a trusting in Christ; that is the moment before they were unsaved, the moment after they are saved. Revival methods are my default, but what would you say is a legitimate entry point into the faith? Is it even okay to pray the sinner's prayer?
I've seen enough conversions where there was a clear before/after. Usually, these were adults. But I've also seen enough that were very gradual, where from a human perspective it isn't easy to indicate the 'entry point'. That's especially the case with children, who generally follow their parents' example. At what point can you say that something was really their own decision? What about decisions in very early childhood? We take a child's decision seriously, but also realize that children are (rightly or wrongly) very strongly influenced by their social and faith context. I have become less worried about trying to get somebody across the threshhold, and more focused on God's continuing work in my life and witness as well as in the lives of others, including those who are not yet converted. This shouldn't be an excuse not to talk about the gospel, or not to give a clear invitation when the time appears to be right. But it moves the burden of conversion from my shoulders to God's - where it should be. And, to be honest, whether or not the sinner's prayer is prayed, hasn't always been a very helpful indication of real change in someone's life. Our salvation, of course, does not depend on whether specific words were spoken in prayer, but on whether we truly trust Christ. Prayer is just one indication of such developing trust.